To burlesque or not to burlesque…

[almostwitty]

Burlesque

Originally uploaded by Oh Lenna

So … I’ve been semi-invited to a Burlesque and Blues night this week - and a Burlesque birthday party in July.

Now, of course, I like seeing scantily-clad ladies disrobing as much as the next heterosexual male - the weekend’s soaring temperatures in London proved that as much as anything. But I still can’t decide if it’s the sort of thing I can go to myself and come out feeling, well, good about myself.

It is a world away from seedy stripclubs with strippers who only see you as walking wallets, but I can’t help wondering if I’d come out still feeling slightly seedy and unsure of myself, if only because I hate paying for things.

The Guardian suggests that it has itself become somewhat of an industry that is itself rife for exploitation. But all the railing by feminists against the porn industry hasn’t stopped today’s yoof exposing themselves to anyone and everyone for a bit of fun.

Expression or exploitation?

Originally published at almost witty. You can comment here or there.

Comments

[amanda.livejournal.com]

So wait. One girl writes an article stating she did it for all the 'wrong reasons', and suddenly every female who decides to become a stripper of sorts is being exploited?

Sorry, no.

I worked in a lapdancing club for a while. I wasn't a stripper/lapdancer - I was a barmaid. But I can tell you that all the lapdancers there were in it for one thing and one thing only. Money. They liked the money they earned - they earned much more than they ever would have working in an office doing a 9-5 job.

Hell, some of them were even married or in committed relationships. They had families. They provided for their families in a way that they wanted to. One of the girls I worked with was actually a fully qualified doctor - she chose to dance because she made more money than she ever did working as a doctor.

I'm not saying that there aren't girls out there who are absolutely not being exploited. I'm sure there are some - probably many. But I don't think the whole industry should be classed as exploitation when that's not the case.

[almostwitty]

The exploitation argument is the one that "feminists" have been making for ages... and probably just shows how it's a rather complex grey murky area.

Then again, I've never liked going to strip clubs - paradoxically, because it's so blatantly obvious that it's all about the money and I, as a walking customer, am just a walking wallet as far as they're concerned. And I'm a skinflint!

[amanda.livejournal.com]

I agree with you there, it's definitely all about the money - they see you as a walking wallet, not as an individual. There's just no way to argue against that. :)

[anivair.livejournal.com]

I think a burlesque show is fine, but I think a strip club is fine, too.

At a strip club there's a very simple transaction. There are girls. I give them my money. They show me their boobies. More money generally = more boobies. End of transaction. The problem arises when guys forget this general transaction and either expect more boobies for no money or expect more than boobie showing. It's not a singles club. The girls are not up for auction.

A burlesque show is really more of a talent showcase. It's definately performance art, IME and I think definately worth seeing.

[radiantsoul.livejournal.com]

Boobs are one of the few things worth paying for.

[anivair.livejournal.com]

honestly, women run the sex industry from every level, be they strippers or porn stars. Yes, I'm sure that there's the occasional young girl who gets roped into the industry and is manipulated by "evil men" (tm) nut that's really way more of a fantasy than you'd think IME. Every woman I've ever known who worked that industry did so because she wanted to, was in charge of her own work, and worked at her own pleasure.

If anyone is exploited in the sex industry, it's men, but I can live with that. I get it. I know I'm paying money to see boobs. I know that I won't get to take the strippers home (at least, not as part of the business transaction) and yet I go and give them my money and look at their nudity and go home frustrated and happy. That's the point and if you're expecting anything else from a strip club or other type of sex show, then you're off base.

Prostitution is a grayer area, but only, I think, because it's usually illegal. Legal prostitution is usually a solid industry as well (it's amazing what a good disinfectant sunlight is).

[hellmutt.livejournal.com]

The young burlesque-dancing lady who used to be married to Marilyn Manson, and was on Eurovision, scared me with her teeny tiny waist.

[almostwitty]

Then again, there is the argument that women/strippers/porn starlets tell you they run the industry and are self-empowered women because, well, if the customers found out that they were exploited etc. then the men would stop paying up.

On the other hand, knowing that your cheap clothes came from over-exploited workers in the third world hasn't stopped people buying clothes from The Gap.

[almostwitty]

*ahem* I wasn't looking at her ... waist...

[almostwitty]

PS: Dita Von Teese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dita_Von_Teese) is older than you are ;)

[anivair.livejournal.com]

Honestly, I don't buy the first argument. I somehow doubt that the entire industry has such total control over these women that they can make them say what they want. I use Asia Carerra as an example. She's not in porn anymore and has a genius IQ. Nobody can make her say anything and she still holds that women run the business, so I'm inclined to believe her. She has no reason to lie.

[amanda.livejournal.com]

Oh, I totally agree. Women do run the sex industry. We use our bodies because we can.

I think you'd be surprised at how many girls have not told their families what they really do for a living, and I'd imagine if they were found out, they'd say they were coerced and/or exploited.

Most of the dancers in the club I worked in were not local to the area I live in. Most of them make sure they work in towns/cities where they're not likely to meet anyone they know while working.

Which, you know, I can see their point. How awkward would it be if you're parading around in bedroom clothing and your dad or uncle were to walk in while you were working? I know I wouldn't want to take that risk. ;)

[anivair.livejournal.com]

you're also a girl. They dig that. I still have to pay. Which is okay by me.

And really, the difference between the pussycat dolls and dita is that dita is talented. the pussycat dolls are using their sex to cover up their lack of taste or talent. So it comes off as skanky. Whereas Dita is really talented and she just chose to direct her talent into burlesque, so she's amazing.

[almostwitty]

I would have thought that the main difference is that it's *obvious* that the Pussycat Dolls are part of a worldwide media conglomerate branding exercise run by a record company. Although to be fair, I think the main singer can actually, y'know, sing reasonably well.

Whereas Dita *is* the brand - if she decided to market herself by, say, singing or something, she'd have to be sucked into the marketing machine.

[hellmutt.livejournal.com]

That's true, her sofa was awesomes.

[almostwitty]

You haven't seen my awesome sofa :)

[hellmutt.livejournal.com]

All ladies are young, unless they complain at my calling them so. ;)

[hellmutt.livejournal.com]

What's your awesome sofa like?

[almostwitty]

It's a purple L-shaped chaise lounge... http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/S99842667

[hellmutt.livejournal.com]

Zomg. It's time for... Sofa Tetris!!!

[anivair.livejournal.com]

Also an excellent point. The Pussycat Dolls feel like the logical extension of the mass market getting their hands on burlesque (or ... you know ... hookers).

[almostwitty]

Blimey, your red dog and my evil ostrich look like they could go on a double date together...

[hellmutt.livejournal.com]

Hehe, true. Alternatively, I could bring the misanthropic ninja kitty.

[almostwitty]

Not red enough. NEXT!

[hellmutt.livejournal.com]

That just leaves the Red Panda, then. *blueberrymunch*

[almostwitty]

That's not red, that's auburn! NEXT!

(*sotto voce* How many more of these auditioning wasters do we have to get through today?)

[hellmutt.livejournal.com]

I think that's it, apart from this one dumpy young Scottish lady who wants to be the next Elaine Page, but she doesn't look up to much.

[choirgrrl.livejournal.com]

As a woman, I see nothing wrong with burlesque. Then again, I see nothing wrong with strip clubs, so maybe I'm not the best to ask! lol
If you've never been to a burlesque show, you should really go. It is nowhere as seedy as you may think, and quite tasteful. Most times, there is little to no nudity involved- but if you like boobies you will be pleased. :D

[hellmutt.livejournal.com]

It's dead interesting to read comments from women on topics like this. Thanks.

(Personally haven't seen a burlesque show. It's actually the boobies that put me off; I think I'd probably enjoy the political and gender playfulness more without them...)

[almostwitty]

I'm fairly sure I've seen adverts for butch/lesbian burlesque events where the emphasis isn't quite so much on the boobage. Then again, I'm too enamoured of them, alas...

[girlincambourne.livejournal.com]

I think woman enjoy the burlesque type dancing, you shouldn't feel seedy, it's quite fun!